A benefit for Amanda Knox will be held at the Comedy Underground, January 27th.

Amanda Knox fundraiser to be held Jan. 27

Amanda Knox Appeal Fund Benefit at Comedy Underground

A fundraiser for Amanda Knox, whose recent trial in Italy for the murder of her roommate ended in her conviction, will take place Wednesday, Jan. 27, 8:00 pm- 10:00 pm, at the Comedy Underground in Pioneer Square. Money raised at the “Amanda Knox Appeal Fund Benefit” will go toward the cost of her appeal, a one year process. Her family is already in debt nearly $1 million since Knox was first accused, over two years ago. Six professional comics will perform for free, including Renee Perrault, also the MC. They will avoid political jokes involving any aspects of the trial.

Perrault, a Renton resident, worked with Amanda’s father, Curt, and step-mother, Cassandra, at the downtown Macys corporate division, then the Bon Marche, in the 1980’s and ‘90’s. They have remained in contact.

“I was part of a large circle of work friends from Bon Marche who have celebrated many major milestones in life together, including a baby shower for Curt just prior to Amanda’s birth,” said Perrault.

“Renee came to us and said, ‘I have this idea,’” said Cassandra about the fundraiser idea. “We thought it sounded great. She’s done everything. (It was) her idea, her brainstorm, her everything. Our family is of course very grateful to those who organize fundraisers and to all who attend. We appreciate Renee and the comedians who want to help bring Amanda home.”

Cassandra said many of Amanda’s family members will attend, and Curt will say a few words of thanks.

Perrault believes that laughter has its place, even in the wake of the emotional tumult Amanda’s Arbor Heights family is experiencing now after her guilty verdict and during her appeal process.

“Comedy and tragedy run close to each other,” said Perrault, who retired from the corporate world over four years ago. “There is humor in all aspects of life.”

She also added, in a humorous tone, “I wanted to help, and I have no other marketable skill to offer.”

The Comedy Underground is located at 109 South Washington Street. (206) 628-0303.
Tickets are $50.

We encourage our readers to comment. No registration is required. We ask that you keep your comments free of profanity and keep them civil. They are moderated and objectionable comments will be removed.

Comments

Amanda Knox

It does seem in poor taste to me. The Knox family/PR machine is free to do whatever they want but I would not pay a penny to attend this event. In my opinion she was justly tried and rightly convicted. Good luck on the appeal but I don't think she's coming home soon.

Haiti

Would you like to help someone who is really in trouble and really in need? There was a huge earthquake in Haiti. Thousands dead. Thousands injured. Food and water in short supply. Send your 50 bucks there, not to this family who needs it because they hired a PR firm right after their daughter murdered Meredith Kercher. Amanda Knox was convicted, along with Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede. A COMEDY? No, my fellow Americans, this is a TRAGEDY.

Put your money where it is truly needed. Haiti.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

I think sending money to Haiti is a splendid idea. Those people are really poor, all grieving, and most of them will have lost family members who will never be coming home. And yes, what sort of family hires a PR firm under these circumstances? The simple truth is all most people have to defend themselves and it is usually enough. The other flatmates and Patrik Lumumba found that. PR? That's why the family are broke. And what about the other poor kids in this family? Or are they just less important than their sister, the convicted sex murderer? I feel sorry for them. They look lost to me. Send your money to Haiti, don't waste it on this grotesque comedy fundraiser. From what I see the comedians are rubbish anyway.

Other News

Yes there is other news in the world. A terrible natural disaster in Haiti and more. There are also brave Italian soldiers in Afghanistan fighting for NATO. But anger is growing in the US over the travesty of justice in Perugia.

There are those of us who believe Amanda is innocent and that is important also. In the name of that cause we have a right to raise money and get together to meet each other.

No one is making fun of Meredith's death.

Other News

Yes there is other news in the world. A terrible natural disaster in Haiti and more. There are also brave Italian soldiers in Afghanistan fighting for NATO. But anger is growing in the US over the travesty of justice in Perugia.

There are those of us who believe Amanda is innocent and that is important also. In the name of that cause we have a right to raise money and get together to meet each other.

No one is making fun of Meredith's death.

Curious

So are the family and friends paying $50.00 each to get in? Isn't that counter-productive if they have already been donating all their pennies to the just and noble cause of freeing a murderer?

PhanuelB, but you would all be quite happy if nobody mentioned Meredith Kercher's name. You and your ilk do your very best to completely erase this young woman and rally behind the hometown. It's dispicable. So when she is still found guilty at appeal and the next, will it still be a 'kangaroo' court? There was no travesty of justice in the courtroom, but there certainly is one going on that is being forced down the throats of Americans by Marriott and Co. You want Amanda Knox to become a product so badly you will do anything. Admit it, the thought of all those dollar signs has you salivating like Pavlov's dog.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

Oh, but they are making fun of Meredith death. That's exactly what they're doing, and someone has to say it I'm afraid PhanuelB. As recently as last month Amanda's aunt Janet Huff was still spelling Meredith's NAME WRONG, that's how much the family care about her. Meredith who?

Amanda - she's the one who likes threesomes, which is how she got into this mess; the one that has 'liasons' with strangers in train toilets while her little sister waits. And then posts it on Facebook. The one that takes drugs and sleeps with seven men in six weeks. Or was it six men in seven weeks. Whatever, that's the best truth I can remember. That lovely all American girl. The girl next door. Seattle must be SO proud. What a terrible way to find out about your 'innocent' daughter Curt.

They are making fun of Meredith by trying to make people believe she is INNOCENT. Give me a break. There is absolutely nothing 'innocent' about her.

Face it. Amanda isn't what she seems. She's anything but. We know it, the world knows it. It's just you who chose to stay stubbornly in denial, making a mockery of justice, making a mockery of Meredith's death, making a mockery of Meredith's gentle parents. It's disgusting.

Ted Bundy's mother

The Knox clan reminds me of Ted Bundy's mother.

The rest of the world knows that Ted Bundy is a murderer.

beyond bad taste

When will the madness stop? I´m sorry for the people stupid enough/brainwashed enough to pay good money after bad to support this convicted killed and her family - but not too sorry because they have willingly disregarded the victim and the victim´s family. Happily though that number is dwindling and when the judge´s report comes out all this nonsense will stop. Plenty of evidence against Guede alright, but even more against Knox. Go to the trial testimony! Just how many lies can one person tell? You can´t fool all of the people all of the time, not forever, even with million dollar PR campaigns. Until that day though, sickeningly, we still have to hear about the self-obssessed, self-pitying Knox family, who are still exploiting some people´s naive goodwill, some people´s ignorance and some people´s racism to rewrite history. The family´s constant self-promotion, lies and disgusting attitude to the victim´s family need to stop. Comedy fund- raiser? Sick.

racism??

You´re confused. The problem for you seems to be that the Italian police and courts are not racist enough to throw away ALL THE EVIDENCE against Knox just because they´ve got a black guy. He was only convicted first because he chose to go to trial first. Otherwise they would all have been convicted together - just as they did the crime - together. Knox is a convicted killer just as much as Guede and on the same evidence, DNA, footprints set in blood and testimony which was contradicted by the police, her phone records, perfect strangers, her flatmates, her own boyfriends and ....um... herself, multiple times. Oh and she was convicted of altering the crime scene and slander for telling the police she heard Meredith raped and murdered by an innocent Black man. Perhaps you´re the racist for insisting on the scenario of a lone Black killer - even though all the evidence contradicts you? (you only mention the evidence against him, but there was as much evidence against her, which shows a lack of good faith on your part) No miscarriage of justice, no crazy prosecutor outside your PR campaign, no poor Amanda. Just poor Meredith, brutally killed a by a ´friend´
I

LMAO!!!

intellectual pecking order, hilarious!

This is the only thing funny about the holding of a comedy fundraiser for a convicted killer :(

As a resident of West

As a resident of West Seattle, I've noticed no outcry at all over this fundraiser at all. Some of the comments are trying to raise it to be some sort of international incident, but I think the majority of people have no opinion on it whatsoever. I doubt a single person will show up to protest. And if people really want to do a benefit for the Meredith Kercher by all means do. In fact, one website sent a letter to our Senator Maria Cantwell, which was reported in the Stranger, about how upset and fuming mad they were about Cantwell's reaction to the verdict. It turns out it was only signed by five people. You would think they'd be able to get more signatures than that if everyone thought Amanda Knox was guilty.

You Are Wrong!

It's easy to judge this family and call them names if you don't know them or the situation. Everyone has the right to defend their child, especially in a case such as this where there is so much doubt. I'm sure that if you were in their situation you would do everything possible to bring your loved one home. The fact that you can attack these people in this way is to use your own word "sick".
I have known the Knox/Mellas families for a long time and they are good people in a terrible situation.

I think the benefit is a

I think the benefit is a great idea and I think it will be very popular as most people here are VERY sympathetic to the Knox/Mellas.

Why people are upset

Nobody is trying to make this out to be an international incident. Very few people worldwide are interested in the case. Those that are divide into people who blindly believe in her innocence and those who are upset by the way that influential people are trying to manipulate public opinion.

Many have never forgotten the O.J. Simpson case and feel outraged that the justice system can be distorted with the right amount of money and pressure being brought to bear. This is why there are some who try to stand up for this type of behaviour.

In Italy, there is nothing similar to the Knox P.R. campaign, This, in spite of the fact that her co-accused is an Italian with a very influential father. I know that his sister lost her job with the police and I believe there was some issue with the father trying to influence events illegally, but apart from that I believe that any supporters have followed Sollecito's example and just shut up.

P.R.

Joan, what difference does it make if public opinion is manipulated?

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

"I have known the Knox/Mellas families for a long time and they are good people in a terrible situation."

I don't think anyone thinks the family are not 'good people' who find themselves in a difficult situation. I think they are good people too. But it is how they have chosen to respond to the terrible situation they find themselves in that is in question. Hell, I even think Amanda is probably a 'good person' who got way out of her depth. But she is guilty. The fact she has led a good life up to that point is in her favour, and this was taken into account in the sentencing. But the fact remains that she did a terrible thing. She took the life of an equally good person, an innocent girl. What her involvement was we will never know, but she was there, and every neutral person can see from her performance on the stand that she was lying. She's a terrible liar! My kid brother is a better liar than her and he's only ten. No, it is clear to any disinterested party that the girl was there, knows what happened and was deeply involved in the murder. The parents cannot accept this as they know the 'good' Amanda who existed prior to this event. No surprise that they cannot accept it. But this is so common. Most families of murderers cannot imagine their family member capable of it. Imagine someone coming to your door today and telling you your husband/son/daughter had murdered someone in cold blood. I would deny it to my death bed. Not possible. But that does not mean it is not true. Good people do terrible things under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Sadly Amanda messed up big time here. Now, in order to keep the love of her parents, she cannot admit her part in it. Their love for her is conditional upon her being innocent now. That is because of how they have reacted, how they have chosen to misrepresent the truth to the American public over and over again, how they have denigrated the victim (and yes they have Edda) and how they continue to try and buy 'justice' for their daughter through a hugely expensive PR campaign. At your expense now. But the cost is wider. The cost is the loss of respect people, certainly in the UK and Italy, feel towards the US media, the American nation ("...another typical arroganyt American family thinking they can buy their way out of the consequences..."). As an example of xenophobia you'd be hard pressed to find a better example. It just plays all wrong internationally to slag off one of the oldest cultures in existence as if they 'just don't understand how things are done'. Like the US is any better. You fry your murderers, whether they are mentally competent or not. Europe gave that up decades ago as cruel and inhuman. You are the ones who brought us Abu Ghriab and water-boarding. You're not exactly in a position to throw rocks at others. It's just bringing up all those bad memories that Mr Obama's election has helped to heal in terms of your international reputation. We're sick of it. Just accept that one of your all American girls is not 'innocent' at all, the process was transparent, she's have been convicted on less and probably fried by now in the US. As it is she has a hairdresser, cooking facilities, singing, drama, dance, a tv...Really backward those Italians aren't they...

In a bad situation!

Wow! Post number 135 at 6:40 am says it all. Well done!

It looks like the post that

It looks like the post that impressed me is now 133. In any case it is the one posted at 6:40

However, if you really want to be impressed, I have been directed to a piece by Bill Edelblute on examiner.com
entitled: "Senator Cantwell taken in by biased U.S. media that murdered the truth about Amanda Knox"

It is well worth a read. I cannot imagine any neutral observer remaining neutral after this piece.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

Yep, going to keep using that subject title...

Joan Hogan, I just read the article, thanks. He writes extremely persuasively and powerfully. When you take it in it makes you really sad, to think that this is all the stuff that family and their supporters are blocking out. I think it would destroy them psychologically to take it in actually. The cracks are beginning to show, and I think the strength of their fight is commensurate with the strength of their fear of collapse. What they are putting off is grief. Huge, overwhelming, terrifying grief, which they know and sense will destroy them. And it will. For a while. It's horrible to watch, and no compassionate person can help but have pity for them. But out of pity for Meredith's parents, who unlike Mr Knox and Mrs Mellas will never hold their beautiful daughter again but have the image of her brutal, sadistic murder and lonely, terrifying last moments to contrast with their joy at her birth - out of pity for them and in defence of the US's international reputation, one simply must speak out against this PR campaign of misinformation. It is the display of private grief masquerading as something quite different. The prospect of a comedy fundraiser is the final insult, and shows how far from reality, decency and good judgment this family are drifting.

Amanda is Innocent

Why is Amanda Knox innocent? The short answer is that the evidence against Rudy Guede is overwhelming and there is no plausible scenario of AK and RS helping him. It was a plain vanilla sexually motivated homicide and/or botched burglary by a troubled male. Nothing more complicated than that. That doesn't mean that you don't go where the evidence takes you, but it's not there in this case. Not by 100 miles.

Significant parts of my reasoning.
(1) Evidence of sexual contact between Rudy and the victim that is presumed to be non-consensual
(2) Vast forensic evidence that Rudy was involved in the killing
(3) No evidence of a relationship between Rudy and AK,RS, or the victim.
(4) His prior use of a knife in a fight
(5) Three breaking and entering incidents by Rudy prior to the murder without accomplices
(6) Italian interrogators are tough as nails and got her to say what they wanted. All evidence of what she said is second-hand, subject to manipulation, and poorly documented.
(7) Examples of innocent interrogation subjects making false statements are not uncommon
(8) Bra clasp DNA evidence could have gotten there through innocent means and included DNA of other individuals
(9) Knife evidence was dubious from a scientific point of view and was negative for blood.
(10) I don't not accept Rudy's claim of consensual sexual contact with the victim and somebody else killing her
(11) I do not accept scenarios of AK and RS participating with Rudy in a sexual assault
(12) Mignini's interrogation of Preston was motivated by self interest and not by a search for the truth
(13) Rudy's participation in the Perugia law office break-in was similar to the break-in at the cottage.
(14) Rudy's jailhouse diary statement of trying to help Meredith is sick and cannot be reconciled with his police monitored Skype call

I also point out that the US justice system was broken in the Wenatchee, Washington cases and that Italy would do well to engage in the same kind of self-examination that worked for the US in that case.

As for why a reasonably normal Western democracy such as Italy failed so horrifically in this case, that may not be a simple question. But fail they did and something needs to be done about it.

Trial by blog

A lot of people, pro-and anti-, seem to share a delusion that they *know* what happened in this case.

None of us does have that kind of knowledge. We weren't there when the murder was done, and we weren't even at the trial.

It's very understandable that Amanda Knox's friends and family *believe* strongly in her innocence. It's not so understandable that news organizations quote them as if they were neutral, objective sources who can provide facts we can all take at face value. How could they be?

I know Steve Shay and Tim Egan are on record (I think this is fair to say?) as being convinced of Ms. Knox's innocence. Having followed the trial, I remain unconvinced, and I would say that neither writer has addressed the evidence in the case in a thorough and persuasive way. I think that, from this distance--without any of us having the grounds for real certainty--there's more than one way to read the confusing and sometimes conflicting signs. (If anyone were to dive in in an unbiased spirit and write a thoroughly researched report on this case I'd be fascinated.)

And there's more than one way to project like crazy whatever narrative meets our own emotional needs. Whether it's "I'm helping to rescue a damsel in distress" or "I'm helping to unmask evil," these fantasies and projections are all basically ways of entertaining and flattering ourselves at the expense of actual human beings whose lives are not a joke to them, and shouldn't be to us. By whom I mean both the Kercher family and those convicted of murdering her.

OK folks, here's a PRIME

OK folks, here's a PRIME example of the type of misinformation and downright LIES being put out there by the Friends and family of Amanda Knox. Red handed. Here

PhanuelB says:

" 3.No evidence of a relationship between Rudy and AK,RS, or the victim."

Let me quote from AMANDA"s OWN WORDS IN COURT on Friday, June 12, 2009.

(CP is Carlo Pacelli, Lumumba's defense lawyer:)

CP: You know Rudy Hermann Guede?

AK: Not much.

CP: In what circumstances did you meet him?

AK: I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening when I met
the guys that lived underneath in the apartment underneath us, and while I
was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.

CP: So it was on the occasion of a party at the house of the neighbors
downstairs?

AK: Yes. What we did is, they introduced me to him downtown just to say
"This is Rudy, this is Amanda", and then I spent most of my time with Meredith,
but we all went back to the house together.

CP: Did you also know him, or at least see him, in the pub "Le Chic", Rudy?

AK: I think I saw him there once.

CP: Listen, this party at the neighbors, it took place in the second half of
October? What period, end of October? 2007?

AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.

...

CP: On the occasion of this party, Miss, was hashish smoked?

AK: There was a spinello that was smoked, yes.

CP: At that time, in October 2007, did you use drugs?

AK: Every once in a while with friends.

CP: Which substances were they?

AK: Marijuana.

So the FACTS, out of Amanda's own mouth are that she DID know Rudy, had been at a party with him and had also met him in Le Chic bar.

It is a LIE to say there was no contact between any of them. Amanda had smoked dope with him!

Wake up America. If someone tells one lie, how can you credit anything they say. PhanuelB you're busted.

You're being played for fools Seattle..

P.R., again

I want to follow up on your post #131, Joan, so, again, what difference do you think it will make to Amanda's appeal if public opinion is manipulated?

Relationship

Read my lips.. No relationship between AK, RS, and Rudy. Nobody ever said she hadn't seen him around. She worked at a bar and he was a bar crawler. He had also apparently crashed on the sofa of the young men who lived downstairs after following a group of them home.

The idea that they would do anything sexual with him is preposterous and made-up. His DNA was found inside the sexual areas of a murder victim. The idea that another young woman in her prime was holding the victim down during this is ridiculous with a capital R.

Enough Already

Enough Already:

In democracies sometimes the public needs to come in a and take a hard look at a trial. This can always be seen as people who weren't there second guessing those who were. It's an important part of the democratic process.

A big part of this case is that the actual trial record is not available to the public. Italian law apparently does not allow scanning and publication of the court record. This has meant second hand information is everywhere, particularly with Amanda's early statements. The fact is that this deficiency does not exist in the US system.

The newspaper reports that I have read document facts that logically exonerate Amanda. US media outlets such as CBS, CNN, and the New York Times have very strict standards about what may be taken as fact under their name. Commentators for these organizations have used the strongest possible words to condemn this trial.

Phanny B

How can we possibly read your lips, Phanuel? Er, Charlie?

"I want to follow up on your

"I want to follow up on your post #131, Joan, so, again, what difference do you think it will make to Amanda's appeal if public opinion is manipulated?"

Answer: None at all! The appeal is in Italy.
What angers me, is that this manipulation conveys the impression that Americans think that they can get away with murder, if they have the money. I am also angered by the blatant xenophobia that this has stirred up. I tend to get quite upset, when I see instances of injustice in the world and the fact that this trial and most of its participants are being attacked in this way seems to be totally unjust.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

Oh I see, you are now changing the terms of your argument. No 'relationship' - I took that to mean they didn't know each other. Well they clearly did. They smoked dope together. You are deliberately misleading in your assertions.

'Saw him around' - it takes less than this for Amanda to have sexual intercourse with a man PhanuelB. She met the stranger on a train journey and that all came to pass within less than an hour.

It proves, more than any moral judgement, that she was capable of reckless and risk-taking behaviour.

Get your facts straight before you try and fool your fellow citizens. How patronizing you are, how contemptuous of the intelligence of your fellow Seattlites.

'The newspaper reports that

'The newspaper reports that I have read document facts that logically exonerate Amanda. US media outlets such as CBS, CNN, and the New York Times have very strict standards about what may be taken as fact under their name. Commentators for these organizations have used the strongest possible words to condemn this trial.'

Oh grow up. This comment alone would be enough for most intelligent Seattlites to realise how ignorant and uneducated you are. 'Very strict standards'. Yesssss....of course they do dear. I think it was your reporters that coined the phrase 'If it bleeds it leads'.

Following up

Joan wrote: "What angers me, is that this manipulation conveys the impression that Americans think that they can get away with murder, if they have the money."

I have a feeling that anyone with enough money to buy their way out of a murder conviction already knows what they can and can't get away with.

Amanda's is an extraordinary case. She does not come from a background of money. Knowledgeable people all over the world are sticking their necks out to donate the money needed to provide her with a defense.

I noticed a comment on the examiner.com blog that I think you may have written (thanks for referring us to that piece, by the way). Did you write the remark saying that the evidence had to go through 19 separate independent judges? If so, I suspect you got that information from truejustice or from someone who got it from truejustice.

If you really care about injustice in the world, I would advise you to stay away from that hate site and look for information from other sources.

Post #139 @ 8:12 am A very

Post #139 @ 8:12 am A very good post. Caring and thoughtful. Thank you. Similarly Enough Already, some very well reasoned comments.

Phanuel B - "Read my lips.. No relationship between AK, RS, and Rudy." It depends on what you mean by relationship. I think that the lengthy post detailing their known relationship, was very convincing in terms of that they were known to each other.

Not me!

Mary H: "Did you write the remark saying that the evidence had to go through 19 separate independent judges?"

Nope!

Realtionship

"I think that the lengthy post detailing their known relationship was very convincing in terms of that they were known to each other."

"known to each other" I think has never been disputed. But that testimony is 1000 miles from showing that it ever went beyond that, much less involving sex or sexual violence. Amanda had worked as a bartender. She would have seen all sorts of faces and guess what -- Amanda and Meredith were attractive, intelligent girls. Guys that they wouldn't be interested in would have ideas about them. There isn't a shred of evidence that they let him get any closer than that.

It was me

I was quoting the learned Stefano Maffei, lecturer in criminal procedure at the University of Parma. He has has Ph.D in law from Oxford University and has lectured at none other than your esteemed Harvard Law School. He is now, I believe, a guest lecturer at University of Pacific McGeorge School of Law. This guy knows one end of a trial from another, I think it is fair to say.

I read his comments and copy them here: "This is the simplest and fairest criminal trial one could possibly think of in terms of evidence. There were 19 judges who looked at the facts and evidence over the course of two years, faced with decisions on pre-trial detention, review of such detention, committal to trial, judgement on criminal responsibility. They all agreed, at all times, that the evidence was overwhelming"

I did not get it from the truejustice site, it was sent to me by a friend who knew I was following the case. I know that the Italian Justice system is rigorously fair, and very different from what we are used to in the UK and the US. The trials take an age, yes, and that does mean there is a lot of speculation. BUT, my understanding is that they are thorough to the nth degree. Painfully thorough. Also I am told that the system favours the defendant both during and after the trial. The prison system is one of the most humane on the planet. I think it is lucky for Miss Knox that she was not found guilty at home, or she would be enjoying considerably fewer privileges and a whole lot less understanding!

To be serious though, the fact that nineteen separate judges assessed the evidence at different stages of the process and ALL of them found the evidence sufficient to pass on to the next stage of the proceedings, speaks volumes. The fact that such a learned man of law speaks plainly in this way should help us all form an opinion on who is telling the truth here. He would not risk his considerable reputation on speculation.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

"Amanda had worked as a bartender....There isn't a shred of evidence that they let him get any closer than that"

Amanda was SACKED by her boss Patrik Lumumba for constantly flirting with men who came to the bar. She was 'all over them' apparently, even while she was supposedly with Raffaele! The girl was out of control. She didn't do any work, and although it helped initially with business, getting men in that Amanda would flirt with, Patrik eventually got fed up with it as she never did anything else. She was demoted to just handing out fliers.

The girls was a madam. It's clear from stories that both she and others have told. She got herself out of her depth, tried to play one hand too many - sex with two men - and it all got horribly out of control. Clear as day.

She's not the innocent little 12 year old this comedy event (or is it Steve Shay, with his propensity for photos of the 'young' Amanda) chooses to show. The headline photo does not represent the reality of the man-eater who turned up in Perugia.

Sacked

Need a fact just snap it out of thin air. Just like Mignini. Please post a source for the following:

"Amanda was SACKED by her boss Patrik Lumumba for constantly flirting with men who came to the bar. "

Hours before the murder, Amanda and Patrick had traded text messages about whether she needed to come to work that night.

Making fun of Meredith Kercher's death

"Please post a source for the following:

"Amanda was SACKED by her boss Patrik Lumumba for constantly flirting with men who came to the bar. ""

With pleasure PhanuelB. In Patrick's own words:

'The following day he employed Amanda to collect glasses for two shifts a week from 10pm to 3am. But he soon realised she was more interested in making herself available to his male customers than making herself useful at the bar.

"Every time I looked round she was flirting with a different guy," he says.

"I'd tell her off, she'd smile sweetly and apologise, and be back at it within five minutes. She'd put her mouth so close to her conquests it looked like they were kissing.

"Sometimes, when I tried to get her back to work, the men would become rowdy. Once I was told to mind my own business and butt out of Amanda's. "She was always causing trouble. Even my girlfriend thought she was strange. Whenever she met her she'd death stare her and turn her nose up. I don't think she was jealous, she never came on to me. She just felt so threatened by other women."

As Amanda's flirtatious behaviour continued, Patrick was faced with a dilemma, knowing that to sack her could generate as much negative word-of-mouth publicity as bringing her in had intended to create.

"I decided to put up with it," he says.

"Even though she'd ask to leave early all the time and got into work late so she could call her American boyfriend. She never told me his name but they seemed very much in love. He sent her presents and she giggled when she mentioned him."

Amanda, meanwhile, was becoming increasingly erratic. "Her moods started swinging from docile and lazy to hyperactive and flighty.

"I knew she smoked cannabis and it was impossible to predict which one she'd be.

"I told her I'd asked Meredith to come and work for me and her face dropped and there was a big silence. Then she said, 'Fine,' and stropped off. I knew then she was extremely jealous of Meredith. She obviously thought she was invading her territory."

By Tuesday, October 30, his patience ran out. He told Amanda she could carry on handing out club flyers, but could no longer work in the bar.

"She looked at me blankly and walked away," he says. "The club was busy and I didn't see her again that evening."

The next day Amanda attended a Hallowe'en party at the club, knocking back the free red wine. "She was all over two American boys," Patrick says. "There was no sign of Sollecito and I didn't see her leave."

Ok? Next?

That was an exclusive interview given to the Mail on Sunday 25/11/07

Do they think justice is for sale?

Amanda Knox's parents, relatives and friends haven't bought me!

All indications are that Amanda Knox is a killer.

The murderess parents are as good at lying as Amanda Knox is.

She is guilty and the two appeals will confirm this.

Patrick Lumumba

Interesting article. As I said before he didn't fire her becasue of the text message exchange hours before the murder. He does have unkind things to say about her although they were certainly made in the heat of passion.
The article is very dubious tabloid journalism. Are the statements attributed to him accurate? They better be.

Now his about his interrogation in his own words:

"They hit me over the head and yelled 'dirty black'. Then they put handcuffs on me and shoved me out of the door, as Aleksandra pulled Davide away, screaming."

He was greeted outside by a convoy of seven police cars, sirens blazing, and driven to Perugia's police station, where he was subjected to a ten-hour interrogation.

"I was questioned by five men and women, some of whom punched and kicked me," he claims. "They forced me on my knees against the wall and said I should be in America where I would be given the electric chair for my crime. All they kept saying was, 'You did it, you did it.'

" I said, 'You think I killed Meredith?'
"They said, 'Oh, so now you've remembered' and told me that if I confessed I'd only get half the 30-year sentence." It wasn't until 5.30pm that ? still handcuffed and unfed ? he was shown the evidence against him, a statement from Amanda saying that on the night of November 1 he had persuaded her to take him back to the house she shared with Meredith and two others."

Remember. There's a reason that the police won't release the videos or recordings of Amanda's interrogation. With the techniques described above they could get somebody to say almost anything.

Patrick Lumumba

Interesting article. As I said before he didn't fire her becasue of the text message exchange hours before the murder. He does have unkind things to say about her although they were certainly made in the heat of passion.
The article is very dubious tabloid journalism. Are the statements attributed to him accurate? They better be.

Now his about his interrogation in his own words:

"They hit me over the head and yelled 'dirty black'. Then they put handcuffs on me and shoved me out of the door, as Aleksandra pulled Davide away, screaming."

He was greeted outside by a convoy of seven police cars, sirens blazing, and driven to Perugia's police station, where he was subjected to a ten-hour interrogation.

"I was questioned by five men and women, some of whom punched and kicked me," he claims. "They forced me on my knees against the wall and said I should be in America where I would be given the electric chair for my crime. All they kept saying was, 'You did it, you did it.'

" I said, 'You think I killed Meredith?'
"They said, 'Oh, so now you've remembered' and told me that if I confessed I'd only get half the 30-year sentence." It wasn't until 5.30pm that ? still handcuffed and unfed ? he was shown the evidence against him, a statement from Amanda saying that on the night of November 1 he had persuaded her to take him back to the house she shared with Meredith and two others."

Remember. There's a reason that the police won't release the videos or recordings of Amanda's interrogation. With the techniques described above they could get somebody to say almost anything.

Police brutality

Some pretty extreme examples of police brutality her, Phanuela B. However, Amanda Knox never claimed that any of this happened to her.
Interestingly, it does not look as if Patrick Lumumba broke down and offered an account of how he was at the scene of the crime.
It very much looks to me that Amanda broke down, when she realised that Rafael would not confirm her alibi.

Grown men

Patrick was a grown man so he could deal with the situation better. Same with Doug Preston who provided firsthand accounts of his own interrogation.

"However, Amanda Knox never claimed that any of this happened to her."
No no no.. Amanda talked of being asked the same questions repeatedly, of being struck, and of being denied food. There are also allegations that she was asked to talk about what might have happened. The circumstances or her interrogation are a big deal and are particularly relevant to the side issue of the suit by Patrick. His real complaint should be against the Italian police.

I personally think that her statements to police are rendered all but irrelavant by the evidence against Rudy Guede. Given the overwhelming case against him, it would take a mountain of evidence to show that AK and RS were working with him. That evidence isn't there, not even close.

"known to each other" I think has never been disputed.

=======================================
"I think that the lengthy post detailing their known relationship was very convincing in terms of that they were known to each other."

"known to each other" I think has never been disputed. But that testimony is 1000 miles from showing that it ever went beyond that, much less involving sex or sexual violence. Amanda had worked as a bartender. She would have seen all sorts of faces and guess what -- Amanda and Meredith were attractive, intelligent girls. Guys that they wouldn't be interested in would have ideas about them. There isn't a shred of evidence that they let him get any closer than that.
========================================

sex or sexual violence

"known to each other" I think has never been disputed. But that testimony is 1000 miles from showing that it ever went beyond that, much less involving sex or sexual violence."

Why is it that when Amanda Knox writes something, the gist of her writing glorifies sex or sexual violence?

The person Amanda Knox was unanimously convicted of murdering died of a sexual violent attack even involving at least two knife and possibly three.

Amanda Knox is not Snow White, far from it.

I support the guilty verdict against Amanda Knox.
The trial was open and fair and even the US officials monitoring the trial said so.

In my opinion it was Amanda Knox who instigated the murder and w

"Claims that AK and RS were holding down the victim while Rudy does whatever are preposterous and made-up. "

Dr Mignini's theory is more plausible than any of the fantasies originating from the Knox/Mellas families.

In my opinion it was Amanda Knox who instigated the murder and who dealt the fatal knife wound.

Well, Patrick Lumumba had no reason to break down and offer a sc

"Interestingly, it does not look as if Patrick Lumumba broke down and offered an account of how he was at the scene of the crime.
It very much looks to me that Amanda broke down, when she realised that Rafael would not confirm her alibi."

Well, Patrick Lumumba had no reason to break down and offer a scenario describing how Meredith Kercher died, the real murderess however did.

Questions and Answers

Common Questions and Some Answers that might help if you read through (taken from another site, hope this is okay)

1. Why was Amanda not afforded an attorney during interrogation?

2. Why have interrogation recordings not been released to the defense?

3. Why was a ‘satanic inspired group sex’ motive applied before the results of forensic testing were known?

4. Why did Judge Matteini repeat the prosecutor’s fictitious scenario from her judicial bench without demanding supporting evidence?

5. Why did Giobbi claim that he knew Amanda was guilty based on behavior as opposed to evidence?

6. Why not house arrest instead of imprisonment during the prosecution of the case?

7. Why does it matter about the calling of the carabinieri since various people had been called previous to the postal police arrival?

8. Why does it matter about the calling of the carabinieri since Knox/Sollecito informed the postal police of the suspicious findings in the house?

9. Why were three computers fried?

10. Why was the Knox family not allowed to attempt to have data recovered from Amanda’s fried computer?

11. Why was there no change of venue?

12. Why did Rinaldi erroneously attribute shoe prints/footprints to the defendants?

13. Why did Stefanoni withhold DNA testing information?

14. Why is Stefanoni still withholding DNA testing information?

15. Why did the DNA testing not include any control tests?

16. Why is the knife considered to be inculpatory evidence when it would be inadmissible in a US court?

17. Why was the ‘right’ knife selected from a drawer full of knifes?

18. Why was blood not found on the knife?

19. Why was the knife DNA sample size not accurately revealed in court?

20. Why does the knife not match wounds on the victim?

21. Why does the knife not match the bloody silhouette on the pillow?

22. Why was the bra clasp fetched 47 days after collection of all other tested items?

23. Why was the bra clasp fetched only days after a shoe print once attributed to Sollecito was discovered to be Guede’s shoe print?

24. Why was there a two minute long filming of the bra clasp collection?

25. Why was the court misinformed of the bra clasp DNA sample size?

26. Why did testing of the bra clasp reveal DNA of three unidentified individuals?

27. Why is the bra clasp considered to be inculpatory evidence when it would be inadmissible in a US court?

28. Why did the judges/jurors find mixed DNA of Amanda/Meredith to be inculpatory evidence?

29. Why was Amanda threatened with defamation when she exercised her right to defend herself in court?

30. Why didn’t the court request independent expert review of key evidence?

31. Why were jurors snoozing during both the defenses’ cross examinations and presentation?

32. Why did some jurors state that they believed the defendants to be guilty months before the conclusion of the trial?

33. Why was Guede’s appeal scheduled a few days before the prosecution’s summation?

34. Why were Edda/Curt Knox presented with notice of a defamation investigation within days of the court’s ruling?

35. Why would judges/jurors believe the “hate”/”Amanda’s feminine allure” motive unless they were biased?

36. Why was Guede believed with his history of breaking and entering and lack of employment—i.e., a drifter?

37. Why was Amanda not believed with her history of non-aggression and achievement?

38. Why did the judges/jurors believe that Amanda would wish to have group sex with the barely known drifter, Guede?

39. Why did the judges/jurors believe that Amanda would wish to have group sex with her boyfriend of six days?

40. Why did the judges/jurors believe Amanda ‘staged’ the scene when a defense expert’s testing revealed that the rock breaking the window was thrown from the outside?

41. Why didn’t the judges/jurors find the lack of evidence placing Amanda in the bedroom to be exculpatory unless they were biased?

42. Why did the judges/jurors find the witnesses creditable after they discredited themselves unless they were biased?

43. Why did a juror say “It was hard to envision Knox doing this, but it is possible. . .” and not apply reasonable doubt?

1. Amanda was not afforded an attorney during questioning because she was questioned as a 'Witness'. Witnesses are not afforded attorneys, be they in Italy or the US.

2. No interrogations have been released to the defence because there were no recordings to release. Amanda and Raffaele were questioned as witnesses, therefore the law does not require their statements be recorded, either in Italy or the US. However, even if there were such recorded they still could not be heard in court for two reasons. Firstly, because Amanda and Raffaele's defence teams had their statements ruled out as inadmissible in the trial and secondly, because interrogations are not permitted to be played in court so as to protect the defendant.

3. There never was any 'Satanic inspired group sex' motive mooted by the prosecution. This is a straw man.

4. Judge Matteini made a ruling based on the evidence that was provided at the time. Her ruling was therefore, based on the 'evidence'.

5. Giobbi claimed to consider Amanda guilty by her behaviour because police officers are trained and have a great deal of experience, in examining the behaviour of suspects. Behaviour 'is' evidence. But despite his view at the time, the investigation continued for 8 months and gathered further evidence that fully supported Amanda's guilt.

6. Amanda and Raffaele were not granted house arrest because firstly, they were deemed a flight risk, secondly because it was felt they could tamper with evidence/witnesses and thirdly because the sexual element of the crime meant there was a danger of reoffending. House arrest is not a 'right', but a privilege granted at the discretion of the court on the basis of certain criteria being met.

7. The calls to the carabinieri matter because the defendants claimed to have called them before they arrived. In fact, they called them after the police arrived. This was therefore a 'lie' judged by the court to have been made by the suspects in order to enforce the appearance of innocence.

8. The calling of the carabinieri matters, since despite inviting the postal police inside to see the cottage, they still lied about calling the police before they arrived. Deceit is a serious matter in any murder enquiry.

9. The computers were fried due to an accident. In a complex investigation, there is no such thing as a 'perfect' investigation where there are no mistakes of any kind. In this case, the mistake were minor.

10. Amanda's family were not permitted to attempt to have data recovered from Amanda's hard drive because the data they stated they wanted to recover was deemed by the court as irrelevant to establishing Amanda's guilt or innocence or revealing any useful information about what happened to meredith. Moreover, it would have been a lungthy procedure with little chance of success that would have delayed the trial.

11. There was no change of venue because it is standard legal tradition that trials take place within the region the crime was committed. Exceptional circumstances must be given for a change of venue and these were not provided.

12. Rinaldio assigned the trainer print to Raffaele because in his opinion it was Raffaele's. It's as simple as that. It has not been proven that it was not Raffaele's, merely enough doubt of it being Raffaele's has been raised that it cannot be used as evidence against him.

13. Stefanoni withheld no DNA testing information. She provided the defence with all the data they had a legal right to.

14. Stefanoni is not withholding DNA testing data. The defence were given what they asked for, with extra time to review it, data which Stefanoni was not legally obliged to provide, since it's not relevant to the defence case. This was born out since none of that data was used by the defence.

15. The DNA testing included full and proper controls.

16. The knife is considered inculpatory evidence in an Italian court. This is not a US court. 'US' does not by definition equal 'right'.

17. The knife was selected from the drawer because it matched the description of the knife the police were looking for. In addition, the knife appeared to have been heavily scrubbed and was on top of other items, so having been cleaned and placed in the drawer recently. This was testified in court.

18. Blood was not found on the knife as it had been scrubbed and bleached by the murderers.

19. The knife sample size was revealed in court.

20. The knife matches the fatal wound to Meredith.

21. The knife doesn't match the knife stain on the sheet because more then one knife was used in the attack. This has always been what the prosecution has maintained.

22. The bra clasp was retrieved at a later point because the evidence deemed most important for testing is retrieved first. The rest of the evidence is sealed within the crime scene so the police can retrieve more evidence as the investigation deems necessary. There is no legal time limit on the collection of evidence. As soon as the bra clasp was considered important, police returned and retrieved it.

23. The shoe print was never proven not to be Raffaele's and to Guede's, it simply could no longer used against Raffaele due to the degree of doubt raised on it.

24. Every individual piece of evidence retrieved from the crime scene is recorded on camera. This is standard good practice.

25. The court was given the correct information on the bra sample size.

26. The gra revealed the DNA of 'two' unidentified females, not thre unidentified persons. Partial trace profiles on an item of clothing in a shared household that includes shared laundry facilities is not an issue and would be surprising if there were none. In any case, they do not exculpate Raffaele who's profile was copious, indicating direct and vigorous contact and had no business being there.

27. I have seen no fact based arguments or evidence to demonstrate that the bra clasp would not be admissible in a US court. And in ant case, this is not a US court but an Italian one and US courts do not have the monopoly on proper practice.

28. Any court will find the DNA of the accused mixed with the blood of the victim to be inculpatory. Especially when the DNA of nobody else is mixed in with it and especially when it's mixed in places it has no business being, such as in Filomena's room.

29. Amanda was not threatened with defamation. Moreover, nobody has a 'right' to make false accusations against others. When she made the claim she had made it official. Therefore, the prosecutor was obliged to open a file and investigate. This is because one way or another, the law had been broken. If Amanda's accusation was correct, then that would have been a crime on the part of the police. If Amanda's accusations were false, then that would have been deemed a crime by Amanda. A prosecutor is legally required to investigate all crime.

30. The court did not request 'independent' review because it was unnecessary. It is a decison only the court makes, it is not a 'right' for the defence. Enough experts from four different parties had already been heard and it is the judges that are deemed the ultimate 'independent experts' in the Italian system.

31. Judges probably snoozed on very rare occasions, just as all judges do on occasion in long protracted trials. It is not an issue, since the judges possess all the evidence and testimony in written form and can recall any witnesses they wish.

32. No judges EVER stated they believed the defendants to be guilty months before the trial. The only and first comment they made on their guilt was when they delivered the verdict.

33. Guede's appeal was scheduled when it was because there is no reason why it shouldn't have been. He also has a right to as speedy a process as possible just as the other defendants do.

34. Edda and Curt were presented with the defamation papers when they were most probably because the prosecutor's investigation into the matter had just concluded and this then gave the police the green light legally to file.

35. Who said the judges believe Amanda's 'hate' or 'feminine allure'? They haven't said what they believe. We will hear what they believe when their motivations are published in early March. To make seeping claims about what they believe in regard to particular aspects is, frankly, a straw man.

36. Rudy Guede wasn't believed, hence why he was convicted of Meredith's murder. Rudy was not a drifter. The definition of drifter is not 'unemployed'. Rudy Guede also had no criminal record.

37. People are not believed or disbelieved in the basis of their history. They are judged on the basis of the evidence and the facts. And of course, Amanda's own admission that she lied.

38. We do not know 'what' the judges believed and will not know until they publish their motivations.

39. We do not know 'what' the judges believed and will not know until they publish their motivations.

40. It was effectively proven in court that the break-in was staged and it was staged by Raffaele and Amanda.

41. The judges didn't find the lack of Amanda's evidence in the bedroom exculpatory because of the wealth of evidence elsewhere in the cottage and in other forms, that proved Amanda was both present and involved in meredith's murder. A case is judged on the basis of all the evidence, not a cherry picked 'zone'.

42. Clearly, the witnesses did not discredit themselves. Indeed, their testimony was damning. What is beyond doubt, is that the accused certainly discredited themselves.

42. The juror is effectively saying that sometimes normally good people do evil things. No more and no less then that. The verdict was unanimous.

Stefano Maffei

Stefano Maffei has more credibility than the confused Anne Bremner who can't see herself enough on TV.

"1. Why was Amanda not afforded an attorney during interrogation

"1. Why was Amanda not afforded an attorney during interrogation?"

People who are interviewed as witness do not need an attorney and thus A K was not given one while she was interviewed as a witness.

At the point where she become a suspect due to her voluntary comments the interview was stopped, Amanda was given a break and offered food and drink.

I stopped reading your post after your first question as it was only a recycled post which had been thoroughly rebutted on numerous occasions.