" See www.intelligentdesign.org for more about what ID is. "

" tfagan said "The staunch backers of evolution (Darwinists) are really Members of a religion called Atheism."

They are called biologists, not darwinists. Thousands of religious biologists would be surprised to hear that biological evolution is a religion. Also, thousands of atheist biologists would be surprised to hear atheism is a religion.

I understand you're not too bright, tfagan, but let me try to explain. Just because a scientific fact (biological evolution) conflicts with one of your idiotic childish religious beliefs (magical creation), does not make the scientific fact a religious idea. It's just science that you don't like because you think Mr. God made people.

Also, tfagan, non-religious people (atheists) are not religious. Of course you wouldn't understand that because you are not able to understand anything. "

" tfagan, grow up and educate yourself. And stop spreading lies about science. I don't care about your ignorance, but your dishonesty is disgusting. If you don't know what you're talking about, and it's obvious you know nothing about science, why don't you just shut up about it. You make all Christians look like idiots. "

" David Gould, very good explanation of what a scientific theory is. You correctly pointed out intelligent design is not a theory.

I would add that intelligent design is a childish belief in magic. Intelligent design means "I'm too lazy to study science, and I'm too stupid to understand science, therefore everything was magically created by the sky fairy who lives in my tiny defective brain."

You said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Intelligent design magic is an extraordinary claim, and of course it has no evidence at all. Intelligent design is just the wishful thinking of religious idiots who are trying to defend their sky fairy, also known as the christian god.

I have nothing but contempt for the christian morons who prefer magic instead of science. The christian idiots who try to stick their breathtaking stupidity into science education are worse than disgusting. They are traitors and they should get out of my country. "

" Ugh.. You didn't just cite Michael Behe in all this, did you?
Look, much as I'm sure you'd love to prove ID through some weird perversion of logic, Behe's "irreducible complexity" argument has long been debunked as a crock.
Since you obviously don't know much on the subject beyond IDiot rhetoric, I would point you simply to the wikipedia page on the subject. The basic refutation of the idea is the simple fact that so-called irreducible systems are, well, reducible. And even if they weren't (which they are), that still is not "proof" of intelligent design.. all it would mean is that evolution is a little more complicated than previously thought. Take a science class before you bother to launch these pathetic attempts to overturn the foundations of biology. "

" To tfagin: You wrote:

"I have searched the internet for many months looking for the proof of evolution and the best I can find is an assortment of fraud, misstatements and outright lies ..."

Wow! Please post URLs for several of the Internet sites you searched for "proof" of evolution; because I don't have any problems finding evidence for the theory of evolution on the Internet (more than I have time to read), even if I exclude the mircoevolution evidence that you dispute.

Please also post a few URLs that list the specific evidence (scientific evidence preferred) for Intelligent Design; because I do have problems finding this evidence on the Internet. Please exclude any that rely solely on discussing the "faults" of evolution, since I don't consider this evidence of Intelligent Design.

I really would like to understand why there is such a disconnect here.

Thank you. "

" tfagan comes just shy of being 100% wrong.

"I have searched the internet for many months looking for the proof of evolution and the best I can find is an assortment of fraud, misstatements and outright lies being told by the supporters of evolution, in particular about what is referred to as Microevolution."

And he/she is apparently also a liar, as any 5-minute search of the internet will show. A Google search on evolution will provide the references. Evolution has NEVER been disproven, and all evidence suggests it is a fairly accurate description of how different species came to be. True, the theory needs a little tweaking from time to time, but there is a lot more evidence backing it up than the "Nothing -> POOF! -> Everything" idea. "

" "I get very tired of the mantra, Intelligent design is not science."

Well, get used to it. Science is science and ID is a premise based a logical fallacy, the argument of the gaps -- we can't explain it, so godidit.

Once upon a time, this was the explanation for thunder. Ancient Norse tribesmen didn't know what it was, so they filled in the knowledge gaps with this little jewel -- it was Thor swinging his hammer.

The problem with the argument of the gaps is that these gaps keep closing, leaving those who want to fill them with nothing. "

" Just for the record, atheists aren't afraid of god(s). Sometimes we're afraid of the religious wack jobs running around the world today. Being afraid of god(s) is like being afraid of santa claus or the easter bunny. "

" tfagan: you've made several errors. Trivially, macroevolution is not speciation, but any further evolution after speciation; I suspect you may also be unclear on the definition of speciation. Second, speciation has been repeatedly observed; it's even happened accidentally in the lab. The TalkOrigins.org website has a couple pages with instances from the professional literature.

Atheists have no fear for the evidence put forth to support claims of an Intelligent Designer or of God; they are instead dismissive, as there are more comprehensive and concise explanations for the evidence.

As for your claims about support from probability and information theory, I will note that Dembski's book exhibits grevious ignorance of formal Complexity theory, and suggest you check out the papers "Minimum Message Length and Kolmogorov Complexity" by C. S. Wallace and D. L. Dowe and "Minimum Description Length Induction, Bayesianism and Kolmogorov Complexity" by Paul M. B. Vitnyi and Ming Li.

As David Gould said: the evidence does not support the claims of Intelligent Design. "

" Tfagan, please see:
http://www.talkorigins.org/ "

" Intelligent Design Is not Science.
I get very tired of the mantra, Intelligent design is not science. I have searched the internet for many months looking for the proof of evolution and the best I can find is an assortment of fraud, misstatements and outright lies being told by the supporters of evolution, in particular about what is referred to as Microevolution.
One of the many weak efforts put forth by Darwinists to prove evolution, is to explain that we see evolution every day when we breed for certain qualities in dogs ,cats, cattle etc. Of course any thinking person knows that what they are describing is variation within a species. This variation within a species is really called breeding (Microevolution) and has been practiced by humans for all of human history. Note in all that time we have never seen breeding (Microevolution) result in evolving a new species (Evolving into a new species is called macroevolution). We do not see breeding a pig into a fish or breeding a mouse into a whale. So the discussion that breeding (variation within a species) is proof of evolution is misleading and has nothing to do with evolving a new species.
That is why Darwinists attack the ID proponents instead of debating the real issues of science. When challenged the Darwinists usually start by saying Intelligent Design is not science and that it is Creationism in disguise. What is really interesting is that there is no science in the theory of Evolution. Their science consists in just so stories about how it might have happened. The kind of stories that you might make up for children at bed time. There is no scientific evidence to support those stories. All of the so called proof over the last 100 years has been shown to be wrong and sometimes shown to be fraudulent as in the case of the dark and light colored moths or in the case of the finch bird beaks of the Galapagus island. Again using variation within a species (Microevolution) to pretend that it explains evolving into a new species.
The staunch backers of evolution (Darwinists) are really Members of a religion called Atheism. They are very fearful of any evidence supporting a God or an Intelligent Designer. I suppose that they are in general acting in a very sinful way and fear any suggestion they might be held responsible. Thus the bazaar unreasonable fear and resistance to allowing a public discussion of Intelligent Design. They seem to be most fearful of exposing young school children to the empirical evidence of Intelligent Design even though there is more scientific evidence for ID then for Evolution at this time in history. The theory of Intelligent Design finds support using such scientific tools as mathematics (Informational theory and Probability) and biology.
In Biology we now know about DNA, RNA and the very complex machines and processes to be found in the living cell virtually rule out any possibility of an accidental combination of simple chemicals forming living cells. You know the one about the dust, air and lightning forming the first living cell. That story was ok 100 years ago but only the most mentally diminished would accept that story today.
So to all you Darwinists out there, I see no harm coming to you for believing in fairy tales. I see nothing in Intelligent Design that would suggest believers in ID would wish or want to do harm to believers in any religion including Atheists. The only time I even think about an Atheist is when they exhibit such irrational fear and hatred of believers in Intelligent Design and find it necessary to attack rather then debate their differences.
tfagan
For a more detailed discription of Intelligent Design vs Evolution read The Design of Life by William Dembski and Jonathon Wells and the Edge of Evolution by Micheal Behe.
"

" And to see whats really going on in the movie, visit...

www.expelledexposed.com

Expelled Exposed created and maintained by the National Center for Science Education. "

" To see portions of Ben Stein's movie:
"EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed" visit: http://www.ExpelledTheMovie.com/video.php
to view 3 movie trailers
and a Bill O'Reilly interview.

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"